Should Expats be able to vote?

With an election imminent, as with any political party in any country, each of the political parties in SA is working out how best to maximise their chances of not losing too heavily to the ANC. Apart from the ANC, of course. Their tactic seems to be to not give a toss what happens because they’re going to win anyway.

Such is democracy.

Botox Queen Helen Zille’s DA (the Desperate Alternative) and Pieter Mulder’s FF+ (which is actually a political party and not a remedy for period pain) have launched separate court actions in Cape Town and Pretoria respectively to try and change the rules so that South Africans living overseas can vote in the upcoming ballot. And, since these are “white” parties and the majority of expats also fall neatly into that racial demographic, presumably for them.
One would imagine they’ve done their sums and worked out that the expat vote would be a “good thing” for their numbers, anyway. That would be a mighty own goal otherwise. Jacob Zuma would kill himself laughing.
Maybe that’s the plan.

So, should South Africans living and working abroad be allowed to vote in the SA elections?

No. They shouldn’t.

I should be allowed to vote here though. I’m a permanent resident here. I’ve lived here for five years. Paid taxes here for five years. So give me their vote. I promise to use it wisely (if not quite as they might have done).
The ironic thing is that I can still vote in the UK, despite not living there or having even stepped on British soil for over two years. I choose not to though. I think that I gave up that privilege when I made the decision to come and live here in Cape Town. And so it should be with those who have chosen to leave Cape Town – or wherever and head off to the UK – or wherever.

Don’t get me wrong. People like Gabrielle Johannes (does she mean renounced and not denounced, by the way?), currently annoying people in South West London on a two-year working visa, are not the ones I’m talking about. If you are overseas “temporarily” – like on a 2-year visa – then I’m all for your rights. Although, there’s always the counter argument that you knew the rules when you left the country and you still chose to go. Why moan now?

But if that also means that Frikkie van der Merwe who left SA in – let’s choose a year at random here – say 1994, also has the right to vote this year, then something has gone very wrong with the system.
And if that means that you renounce your South African citizenship (or at least that aspect of it) when you choose to move abroad – well, so be it. I have seen too many SA expats who rely solely on dodgy news sites with dodgy reporters and dodgy agendas for their information about South Africa. That those ill-informed individuals should get the opportunity to influence the future of the country is plain wrong.

As it is, whether Helen and Pieter’s court cases are successful or not will almost certainly have very little bearing on the outcome of the election. But it’s nice that they have suddenly realised that they want to campaign for the disenfranchised masses overseas. In an election year.

Who’d have thunk it?

  • I can report that my husband, who is South African, has no desire to vote in the upcoming SA elections. Thanks to the Commonwealth rules that apply, he is allowed to vote in the UK, which has been his home for 9 1/2 years now.

    Ironically, I am not allowed to vote, because Norway is not a member of the Commonwealth or the EU… but my husband was originally granted a visa as my spouse!

    I’d like to be able to vote in the local elections, especially as I pay my council taxes, and I think I’m entitled to say how I want it spent!! I pay taxes too, but just right now I don’t think there is *any* political party that convinces me they know what they are doing!! 😛

    In Norway, once you have lived there for three/more years, you are allowed to vote in local elections… pity they don’t have the same thing for you and me, eh?

    Helga Hansen´s last blog post was: QWERTY! (Note: 6000 miles… is not responsible for the content of external internet sites)

  • Po

    What the DA and FF are doing is blatant and silly. But then if you think about it, perhaps the ANC does not allow expats to vote for the same but opposite reason?

    If you are not a citizen of another country, you should be allowed to vote, full stop. Once you become a citizen of another country of course you should lose the right to vote.

    I am only a citizen of South Africa. I hope one day to come home. Can I guaruntee that I will? Of course not. But I am crazy passionate about the country and really keen to have my say, no matter how insignificant.

    Other countries allow their citizens overseas to vote. We should be able to too.

    Po´s last blog post was: There was a Kugel, a Vaalie, and Van de Merwe… (Note: 6000 miles… is not responsible for the content of external internet sites)

  • We are happy to have you as an honorary SA Toffee. I’ll have a good look a your blog, it may be we have to go to Joburg for a year or two.

    Ciao for now.

    http://www.okathleen.wordpress.com

    Kathleen´s last blog post was: Lineage (Note: 6000 miles… is not responsible for the content of external internet sites)

  • I’m with you on this one 6K. Not only do I believe that I shouldn’t have the right to vote in SA after setting off for the UK on my 2 year holiday working visa in 1993 (and only returning for 1 year in ’95), but I wouldn’t even know WHO to vote FOR.

    Yes, I read the news and see the pictures and stories on TV, but that doesn’t mean I can blindly vote for any party based on their name (FF+? Are you serious?).

    I can’t vote in Australia yet even though I am a permanent resident (only lived here for 18 months), but if I wanted to, as the holder of an Italian passport, I could vote in any Italian election including local elections. But then we know all about Italian politics!

    DelBoy´s last blog post was: This week in the office (Note: 6000 miles… is not responsible for the content of external internet sites)

  • Reflex

    The problem I have, is that by not being allowed to vote, my Constitutional right to vote in elections for any legislative body established in terms of the Constitution, and to do so in secret has been taken away.

    I am a citizen of South Africa and of no other country so would like to think my constitutional rights are afforded to me.
    I just don’t happen to be in South Africa at the time of an election, yet there is a fully functioning department of Home Affairs in the country where I am.

    Which leads me to ask, do people on diplomatic missions outside of SA at the time of the elections get to vote?
    Because if they do, surely it can be used as the basis for an argument for other people based outside the shores of SA?

  • Nicole

    The transparency of elected officials is what we ask for, however, the more transparent they are, the less we trust their agenda. Is that how this thing works? In order to form an international opinion, shouldn’t we decide first who and what we believe?

  • I agree with you (must be a first). If you live in a country for more than a few years, have permanent residency and pay taxes etc, then you should be allowed to vote. If you leave a country with no inclination to return – then sorry for you.

    My parents are/were British but felt very strongly about being able to vote in the country in which they lived in, so applied for South African citizenship. They have voted in every election since.

    Ordinarylife´s last blog post was: Respect for my elders? (Note: 6000 miles… is not responsible for the content of external internet sites)

  • Po > But how do you choose who to vote for. It’s one thing to claim this right to vote, but how valuable is that vote anyway if you are not fully learned about the policies and the parties you can vote for? As I said, it’s no good claiming that you read the news from SA, because that news is skewed to sell paper and get hits on websites. You’ve been away for 5 years now – I don’t think you can rightfully claim that right to vote in SA anymore (although legally you should be allowed to).

    Del > Vote for me, vote for the family? Or the dog will be sleeping with the fishes. 18 months is a bit soon, but you should be allowed to say where your tax money goes. How you managing in that heat?

    Reflex > And there is the problem – yes – under the constitution, you should be allowed to vote from overseas as a SA citizen. But I would argue for a change in the system – in the constitution – to say that you waive that right when you move abroad permanently. Never mind this “Well, I might come back in 10 years” stuff – that doesn’t cut it. I don’t know your personal situation, but this election is not the first where these “rules” have been “erroneously” applied. So perhaps you went away knowing the status quo and in that case, I don’t think you can complain now.
    Of course, if people feel so very strongly about this issue, they could always come back to the country for election day!

    Nicole > That’s politics. At least with trasnparency you should be able to make an informed choice on who to vote for.

    OL > Thank you. Although I disagree with you on one thing – we have agreed before. 😉 I haven’t looked into getting SA citizenship, but anecdotally, I’ve been told that it’s near impossible. But then impossible is nothing.

  • bcgdg

    I luv the fact you guys are all fighting for the right to vote from whereever you are in the world,
    I am a South African, but heck if I know who I am going to vote for.
    Told my sis, I have a better chance of knowing who to vote for in the idols competition than knowing who to vote for to run this country and whether they will have my best interest at heart.

  • bcgdg > And I think that backs up my point. You can get any message across via the media – especially to people overseas who can’t see what’s happening “on the ground”, as it were. And the situation “on the ground” is confusing enough as it is.
    You only have to look at the forum posts and emails claiming to be the gospel truth, but based on false or misinformation to see that people overseas shouldn’t be allowed the vote.

  • I cannot wait for these elections to be over. The ridiculous ideas and plans I hear about every day because of them is becoming a tad boring now.

    Goblin´s last blog post was: Another one bites the dust (Note: 6000 miles… is not responsible for the content of external internet sites)

  • Reflex

    Ah, but 6000, there lies the rub.
    I can’t come back to vote in the elections because I wasn’t in the country at the point I needed to register. Or something.

    Thing is, I am not abroad permanently, have not waived my right to be a South African citizen and still pay tax etc in the Republic.
    I feel I fit the criteria to vote but yet cannot, despite there being a South African mission literally a kilometre away from where I am now. Which also wouldn’t let me register to vote so that I could return to SA to vote.

  • Goblin > Ridiculous plans and ideas? If you vote IFP you get a free trip to the moon. And they’re going to ban reindeer. And only Kingklip will be allowed to be sold after 8pm in built up areas. You get a free 2010 World Cup Tournament with every ANC vote.

    OK > Did I say that? Oops. I was hoping Liverpool would scrape it. *blush*

  • Reflex > You can still register on the 7th and 8th of February – LAST CHANCE!
    Problem solved, ne? 😉

  • Reflex

    So you mean the Final, Last Chance to Register back in November I think it was, was not the Final, Last Chance to Register?

    Can I register to vote by post?
    Scrap that, just checked the IEC website and apparently I am registered.
    Just need an election to be called and then I can make my X and get marked with indelible ink. If I am in the country of course.

  • Reflex > This is really, absolutely and finally the last chance to register. Until the next chance. Which will also be the last.

    Well, it’s looking like mid to late March – why not take a chance and book those flights? At best, you get to vote and make very, very little difference to the outcome of anything. At worst, you get a couple of weeks by the sea in Cape Town (or by a cholera-infested river in Mpumalanga) (or by some sand in the Northern Cape).

  • Thanks for stopping by my blog!

    Ooooh, this is my favourite subject…South African ex-pats…lets not get me started on this…we could be here forever.
    But I could not agree with you more. South Africans who have left should NOT be allowed to vote. I dont think they have a say. They left, therefore they lose their right. Simple.
    And foreigners who come and live here, should certainly have the right to vote. You pay tax…you vote. Simple.

    I do understand though why the DA and FF want to allow it, and on the other side fully understand why the ANC would not allow it.

    I love these topics, am so coming back 🙂

    Hayley´s last blog post was: my mom worries. (Note: 6000 miles… is not responsible for the content of external internet sites)

  • Reflex

    If they call it for the 1st week in April then I shall be in luck.
    If not, then I won’t be.

    On a completely different tack, I supported the China Challenge raffle back in December and won 2 prizes.
    Seems like blogvertising works quite well sometimes.

  • Hayley > Thanks for the comment. And if you have a look via the search window in the sidebar, you’ll see it’s one of my favourite topics too. Not much more I can add to your comment apart from yes – well said!

    Reflex > I’ll have a word with my contacts. I know everyone from Motlanthe down. (But that’s very few people).
    I know you bought tickets and I know you won – well done. I had the headgear in my car for a number of days before I gave it back to Amanda to give to you. Thanks for supporting her.

  • Reflex

    Come on Hayley, let us do get started.
    I am classed as an expat, working outside of South Africa in a perhaps not so foreign country. I am a South African citizen and bound by the constitution, as mentioned before.

    Are you stating that my constitutional right be taken away because I am not resident in South Africa at this point in time?

    As to your point about all foreigners who live in SA being allowed to vote, there had better be a good definition of “live” else you are allowing a large amount of Southern Africans (not just South Africans) the ability to vote.

  • po

    But 6000 how do you know what is going on except by the news? I follow politics as much as I can, not just by reading the news, but by asking my friends what is going on and what they think. I have a good idea of how I would vote. I am more interested and informed than when I lived there, and then I was victim to the same misguiding news as I am now.

    Voting is all biased opinion on the whole anyway. I am making the effort to be informed but in the end, how informed are the majority of voters?

    po´s last blog post was: There was a Kugel, a Vaalie, and Van de Merwe… (Note: 6000 miles… is not responsible for the content of external internet sites)

  • Reflex > I’ll let Hayley reply to that.
    But from my point of view, only people who have chosen to emigrate should not be allowed to vote. Maybe if you have been abroad for more than, say, 3 years.
    As for voting here, only people who have been here for 3 or maybe 5 years should be allowed to vote. We’re actively contributing to the funding of the country – we should have some say as to where that money goes.

    po > So you think that recruiting MORE uninformed voters is a good way to improve the country, then?

  • po

    nah this is about rights. The uninformed have as much right to vote as the informed in the crazy system called democracy.

    My relations attitude is: ANC sucks, vote DA. For racist or non-racist or repressed racist reasons. There is no more reasoning to it than that.

    Its nuts, but what can you do?

    Anyway, no worries, I am not voting no matter how much I whinge.

    po´s last blog post was: There was a Kugel, a Vaalie, and Van de Merwe… (Note: 6000 miles… is not responsible for the content of external internet sites)

  • po > Of course they do – but that’s not a good thing.

    And yes, it’s about rights. It’s a right that the constitution says you should have and which the law says you don’t. The DA is arguing to change one part of that – I think it’s the other bit that sould be altered.

    So would you vote if you could? And where (Durbs? CPT?)

  • po

    Hell yeah, Durban cos that is where what is left of my family is.

    And I know who too, but I aint telling 😉

    po´s last blog post was: There was a Kugel, a Vaalie, and Van de Merwe… (Note: 6000 miles… is not responsible for the content of external internet sites)

  • po > Revolutionary Communist Front, then?

  • po

    Nah they are a bit conservative for my liking. Why are they demanding to be in front? That doesn’t sound very communistic to me.

    If they were the Superrevolutionary Communist Middle, then they might have my vote.

    po´s last blog post was: There was a Kugel, a Vaalie, and Van de Merwe… (Note: 6000 miles… is not responsible for the content of external internet sites)

  • po > Well, neither does being SUPER revolutionary. I mean, either you are or you aren’t, surely?

  • po

    You need a superrevolution before you can settle down to be middling 😛

    po´s last blog post was: There was a Kugel, a Vaalie, and Van de Merwe… (Note: 6000 miles… is not responsible for the content of external internet sites)

  • Chanelle Groener

    this is what i see the issue as…

    yes, we all know why the DA and FF+ are fighting so hard for the ‘expats’ to be able to cast their votes…its plain for all to see….

    but, at the heart of the matter lies the reason and the constitutional right that all south african citizens are alowed to have their say and cast a vote. bottom line.

    you can’t say people staying away longer than, oh say 3 years or whatever are not allowed to vote, because it does not matter how long you stay away or live some where else, you are still a south african until you give up that passport, and therefore according to constitutional law should be allowed to have their say.

    in my personal opinion, i feel that if you want the ‘right’ to vote in a country that is not your own then wait until you become a citizen. bottom line.

    therefore, as long as you are a citizen of a country you are allowed to vote and have a say. not matter how much time was spent outside that borders. citizenship should dictate voter rights.

    the reason for this is because their are certain criteria that needs to be met to be allowed citizenship in a country. i am working in london, and feel no right (even though i pay tax etc) to be bale to vote…because if i don’t like it i can always leave…(which i plan to do someday anyway); just like people staying in south africa from other countries. if God forbid the shit really starts hitting the fan, you can always up and leave. But, then who will be left with the mess to try and clean? Citizenship and voting rights go hand in hand, because voting should not only be allowed because you pay tax. with citizenship comes a certian level of accountability ad loyalty, and if you willing to committ then you should be afforded those right.

    there are many south africans who do not give up, or want to give up their rights as citizens because they intend on coming back home. (whats wrong with experiancing the world, i ask?) but there are also those that give up that citizenship, and therefore they are saying, its ok i dont want my vote.

    i feel that too many south africans at home feel to ’emotional’ about south africans that leave to work and live abroad. the americans and many other countries are VERY OK with the fact that their expats can vote, so why does south africa (again) have to be behind the band wagon. cant we take the lead for a change?

    its a basic constituional right. it does not matter what your reasons are for leaving, be it work, family or something else. until you give up your passport you should be given that right of choice to vote or not. punt. trek n lyn.

    voting should be a citizens right, and not a privilage afforded to whoever is livng in the country at the moment.

  • Stan

    I wouldn’t vote even if the DA etc won their case. I also don’t believe expat Brits living in SA should have the right to vote. If you want to vote take out citizenship.

  • Chanelle > Yes. The law IS unconstitutional. But I think the CONSTITUTION should be changed, rather than the law. It’s wrong that you can disappear off somewhere for as long as you like, but still vote in SA.

    The DA and FF+ should therefore win their case. But then things should be changed before next time.

    Stan > Easier said than done, but yes. I agree.

  • Chanelle Groener

    what? so i cant experiance the world and travel? and still feel like i have a home to come home to? sa will always and forever remain my ‘home’ until i say its not anymore.
    i think its naive to think that people who leave to travel and work in other countries shoudlnt have rights in the land of their birth and ancestors

  • Chanelle > Come now, let’s not get all dramatic. SA will always be here for you as a home as an SA citizen. Just that I believe that if you go abroad for a protracted period of time, you should forfeit your right to vote.
    Not forfeit your right to come back and live here, nor to regard SA as your home and certainly not to give up “all your rights”. I never even hinted at suggesting that.

    Just that one little thing to give up – your right to vote – until you come home, of course.

  • Emil

    Isn’t a more pertinent question whether anyone with residency should vote 😉

    If jailbirds can vote, surely any reasonable person can assume that expats should too!

    As an almost expat I would certainly would have liked to vote! People who can and don’t are simply just wrong! It is a disease of the privilage class that they partake in the luxury of their privilages but fail to contribute as active citizens!

    Vote! For even if we have a democracy, some are robbed of this very basic right won with blood!

  • Chanelle Groener

    ‘just that ONE LITTLE(?) thing?’
    Coming from a family that was not allowed to vote becasue of the colour of their skin….’little’ is a gross mis-judgement of voter rights.

    maybe if you originally came from a country were you were not allowed these rights, you would feel diffrently.

    first i cant vote cause of my skin colour
    and now
    i cant vote because i want to travel?

    maybe you need to realise that you come from a backgroud where your CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS were always protected, and that some people would actually like the oppotunity to decide for themselves wether they would like to vote or not; and not have it be dictated to them by anyone.

  • Emil > The difference is, of course, that “jailbirds” are directly affected by the Government which is in charge of the country in which they “reside”. Sure – perhaps there is an argument for removing their right to vote as well, but arguing that because prisoners are allowed to vote, so should expats is somewhat disingenuous. The two are entirely exclusive of one another.

    Chanelle > Once again – I am not saying you can’t vote if you travel. I’m saying that you shouldn’t be allowed to vote if you decide to live abroad. Entirely different from a quick trip overseas. I don’t want to get into the whole Apartheid thing, because I don’t think that history matters in this case. If not judging anyone on the colour of their skin – I’m suggesting that ALL those who choose to leave South Africa, be they white, black, coloured, grey, blue or mildly stripey should give up the right to have a say in the running of the country. Because it doesn’t directly affect them, so they shouldn’t directly affect it.
    Incidentally, I’m from the UK and have no “CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS” as there is no constitution. That said, as I mentioned in the post – I practice what I preach – I won’t vote in the UK, even though I can.
    But picture this scenario: I live here, become a SA citizen and then – in n years – go back to my homeland, never to darken Cape Town’s streets or flat mountain again. But still allowed to have my say in who runs the country. Does that seem right to you?

  • Most we people who proudly proclaim their determination not to vote do so on the grounds of entirely spurious analogies – if two disagreeable boys asked me out to diner, why should I be obliged to accept them – all fail to recognize that their abstention might in effect work as a positive vote for the most disagreeable of the two boys. Not much nous is required to see why, but at election time, it seems, that is a commodity in shorter supply than usual.

    Perhaps I am naive, but I always thought “jailbirds” resided in jail. There is most certainly a strong argument to be made about their punishment versus civil rights, with incarceration as a means of “removing” them from civil society. Surely expats, to my mind a new form of migrant worker, who are still considered as a citizen of the country, have the right to participate in the democratic process?

    It is all to an easy excuse to abstain from casting a vote. Does it now imply that living abroad voids you of any rights to participate in this process all together? This is how democracy draw its artificial and superficial lines. It not “white-only,” the next marginalization!

    However, praises be that our beloved AND Youth President decided not to accept a parliament post. It makes the whole issue of voting much easier.

    Emil´s last blog post was: Beautiful Nuisance (Note: 6000 miles… is not responsible for the content of external internet sites)

  • Chanelle > Constitutional right yes, but surely you don’t actually believe that your vote should count when you are not currently living in South Africa. How do you know exactly what is happening at the moment? Why should you have the right to affect what is happening in South Africa when you aren’t even there? Where do you get your information from that helps you make an educated decision on who to vote for? Or do you just vote blindly just because you have the right to vote?
    I too have a South African passport. I also went travelling to London… 16 years ago. Do you believe that I should be allowed to make a decision for other South Africans who still live at home? (Yes, I still call South Africa home too)
    Someday I may return home and then I should be allowed to vote again. That’s my constitutional right!

    DelBoy´s last blog post was: This week in the office (Note: 6000 miles… is not responsible for the content of external internet sites)

  • A premise that keep recurring here is that eligible voters living within the borders of SA are somehow more informed about SA politics than those living abroad. I see absolutely no reason to buy that. Any confounders (bad reporting, conversations with ill-informed friends/colleagues, etc.) will be equally problematic in both cases, and in both cases, you can subscribe to a service like politicsweb, or the SAPA news feed, etc.

    On a different note, the policy change I’d like to see implemented is for eligible voters to be fined for not voting, as they do in Australia. Far too many eligible voters choose to not vote, yet somehow still feel entitled to bleat about the state of the nation.

    Quinn´s last blog post was: They tried to teach my baby science… (Note: 6000 miles… is not responsible for the content of external internet sites)

  • Emil > You cannot draw parallels between the right to vote being withdrawn because of the colour of a person’s skin and because they decided to reside abroad. The latter is entirely the individual’s choice and thus, may bring with it certain conditions.

    Delboy > Your constitutional rights actually say that you SHOULD be able to vote abroad – that’s the crux of the DA and FF+ case. And they’re right – the law is wrong. Morally though? The law is correct, I think.

    Quinn > OK, point taken, but I have to say that even if you show absolutely NO interest in politics, merely LIVING, EXISTING in South Africa – your daily life – will surely give you a better insight into how your country/province/city/municipality is being run than the biased websites and secondary – or even tertiary – sources that those overseas must rely on. And for the vast majority of people in SA, that is how they will choose who to vote for – and that is therefore an informed choice.

  • “but I have to say that even if you show absolutely NO interest in politics, merely LIVING, EXISTING in South Africa – your daily life – will surely give you a better insight …”

    Huh? No way – compare the felt experience of living in Constantia vs. Obs vs. Gugs or wherever. It would be completely irresponsible for anyone to treat that as data, without knowing the context – what the factions or voting blocs in your council/ward/province etc. are. Reasoning that because party X is in control of some chunk of the country, what happens in that chunk is a reason to vote for or against them is exactly why parties are forced into relying on spin – nobody pays attention to detail, and instead choose to rely on really naive induction, based on incredibly subjective data (such as how your daily life feels).

    Quinn´s last blog post was: They tried to teach my baby science… (Note: 6000 miles… is not responsible for the content of external internet sites)

  • Quinn > I agree with what you are saying; I think we’re almost arguing the same point. Perhaps because I didn’t explain my bit very well.
    If you are politically unaware or politically uneducated, then “subjective data (such as how your daily life feels)” is almost certainly how you’re going to make your mind up as to who to vote for. Whether it’s because of low-cost housing being built around the corner from you in Constantia, the reduction in the crime rate in Obs or the lack of public transport in Gugulethu. That’s why people vote the way they do – because they’re either happy with their lot or they’re not. Not ideal, perhaps, but then we don’t live in a democratic utopia, and neither does anyone else.
    But I’d much rather they were basing their decision on that, rather than the view of Tannie Brenda who gave her niece in Putney a call last week after she heard that her neighbour’s brother got broken into in July by some black people and so we should never vote ANC. Or basing their decision on how bad the front page of news24.com looked this morning.

    So maybe subjectivity is not ideal. Second hand subjectivity is surely worse.

  • Ah, I thought you were making a normative point about the experience of living here, rather than presenting it as a pragmatic “next-best” to being an informed voter. We do agree, then. On another note, is this going to beat the comment count of the “big crime” post, one wonders?

    Quinn´s last blog post was: They tried to teach my baby science… (Note: 6000 miles… is not responsible for the content of external internet sites)

  • Quinn > That’s because I didn’t explain it very well.

  • Quinn > As for the question about the post count…

  • Quinn > …quite possibly.

  • Chanelle Groener

    ‘Because it doesn’t directly affect them, so they shouldn’t directly affect it.’

    So what you saying that i shouldnt vote because it doesnt direvtly affect my life or my way of being?

    i would like to disagree because i actually have all my family and friends living in the country. if anythng happens to them it happens to me directly.

    on the point that just because i dont live in the country therefore i dont know whats going on….

    i often break top news stories to friends who havent even heard about it yet in south africa!

    just because youlive there doesnt make you automatically know whats going on…thats naive to thnk that….

    granted media is 99.9% propaganda…..but i have family and freinds that also keep me pretty updated on whats fact, and whats fiction

    i bet i know more than you on whats happening…..

  • Gordonasinbay

    I am English and live in the UK. I have the right to vote in the UK.

    I would like to move to SA. Doing so could deprive me of my vote here. I would not get a vote in SA.

    I would be blameless for the woes of either country.

    Just a thought…

  • Chanelle > Ooh – a challenge!
    But no. How do you get the inside track from the UK while avoiding the 99.9% propaganda, then? Direct line to Kgalema?
    If so, does he know what’s going on? He hides it well.
    I have family in Australia, but I don’t get to vote there.
    We will always disagree on this because we can’t agree on the fundamentals.
    As I said, the DA and FF+ should win the battle, but then the constitution should be changed. And, after the ANC victory in Autumn, will be, in all likelihood.

    GaiB > Now that’s a good way of looking at things! 😉
    P.S. Got your email (second time, apparently), but never seem to be at my PC long enough to reply. Sorry!
    But that looks like a good plan to me!